Windows Blue: Sorry no Start Button...

Discussion in 'Windows 8 Help and Support' started by kemical, Dec 31, 2012.

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  1. sirloyne

    sirloyne Banned

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    "Hopefully, PC owners, who are contemplating buying a new computer, have, in most cases, retained their original Windows 7/XP DVDs, so can reinstall, if that it their wish?"
    Unfortunately most people who are buying a new computer are replacing an old computer they bought, and when was the last time you got a full OS disc with a computer you bought? I got one with 98, how about you? Good thing I build my own.

    "But, it is obvious that their are two quite opposing groups on this thread. Those who are comfortably using Windows 8, and those who are, even to the smallest degree, unwilling to compromise on their views regarding Windows 8."
    This sounds like you're saying people who don't like 8 have never tried 8. I've tried it. It's terrible.

    "I do ponder, however, as what stated earlier, why those with such an extreme attitude register on a forum dedicated to helping users with Windows 8. If they merely wish to be heard, then perhaps their views would be more usefully expressed on one of the Microsoft forums?"
    This thread wasn't started by anyone asking for help. It was just a news story that 2 people responded to.

    "Speaking from my own standpoint, when I start to read comments such as "you come off as a condescending d*ckhead, you know that right? ", I drop out of a thread, it is not what help forums are about. Time to close the thread, perhaps?"
    Go back and read what he wrote and you'll see that he was. The funny thing about any forum though, is that people who have made enough posts to be granted some kind of title, (or in this case an administrator), are the first ones to degrade a topic with snide comments and insults. They're the first ones who say that if they like something then anyone who doesn't is just too stupid to know better, but if someone like me comes along after and says anything about them then I'm the one with the problem.
     
  2. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    "Unfortunately most people who are buying a new computer are replacing an old computer they bought, and when was the last time you got a full OS disc with a computer you bought? I got one with 98, how about you? Good thing I build my own."
    With me, the Computer with OS, is not a consideration. I do have original installation disks back to windows 95. Not even sure there were so many new computers with XP or before, installed?

    "This sounds like you're saying people who don't like 8 have never tried 8. I've tried it. It's terrible."
    That is a naïve observation. I would sincerely hope that anyone commenting on these pages, with intelligence, has at least tried Windows 8. I wont be drawn into your last sentence - it has already been totally exhausted in this thread.

    "This thread wasn't started by anyone asking for help. It was just a news story that 2 people responded to."
    Yes. That is exactly how the thread started, so why was it drawn into a discussion of the dislike for Windows 8, initiated by yourself and another poster?

    No comment on your last observation. I'm sorry, but it is rather immature.
     
  3. sirloyne

    sirloyne Banned

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    "With me, the Computer with OS, is not a consideration. I do have original installation disks back to windows 95. Not even sure there were so many new computers with XP or before, installed?"
    First, I'm not even sure what that first part means. Second, Just because YOU have the discs, that doesn't everyone does, so your suggestion that anyone who doesn't like 8 can just pull out their XP/7 disc and go back is absurd. They can't pull out their XP/7 disc, because when they bought their last computer they didn't get an XP/7 disc. That's my point. I thought that was obvious.

    "Yes. That is exactly how the thread started, so why was it drawn into a discussion of the dislike for Windows 8, initiated by yourself and another poster?"
    Show me the first time someone said they didn't like 8, not the lack of a Start button, but 8 as a whole. (hint, it wasn't me or
    Tanzanos)

    "No comment on your last observation. I'm sorry, but it is rather immature."
    Unfortunately it's also true.
     
  4. kemical

    kemical Windows Forum Admin
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    It's a real shame that threads such as this descend into such banality.
    The practice of continually posting trying to inflame threads and moving them off topic to such an extent that any reasonable discussion turns into a Microsoft bashing session cannot be tolerated.
    This is not what the forum is about......

    People have strong opinions and that's fine, but please let's discuss rather than argue.
     
    #24 kemical, Jan 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2013
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  5. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    Hello sirloyne,

    Given that you were not given prior notice regarding your infraction and ban, and seeing as how I have been extraordinarily busy as of late, and only now has the issue seemingly reached an administrative level regarding your ban (the actual ban seems to have been somewhat controversial), you are unbanned, provided that you please provide eloquent arguments and responses to issues, even if you disagree with them. You may disagree with any issues regarding Windows 8 or any technology, for so long as the response is not repetitive, personally insulting, or otherwise in violation of our Terms of Service..

    As kemical wrote:

    This is very much true. However, you are free to make your opinion known without repeating yourself over and over. In some cases, you may be repeating yourself so much, you do not realize it. If you truly wish to write your disagreements with Windows 8, the lack of a Start Orb/Menu, and so forth, I do encourage you to create your own blog for this purpose.

    In trying to direct the discussion further, please remember that this thread was initially about (as posted by the OP):

    Windows Blue (the SaaS - software as a service) model that will likely surpass Windows 8. For example: You purchase a monthly or annual subscription from Microsoft for major OS improvements, instead of buying a new version of Windows every X years.

    The lack of Start Orb/Menu in Windows Blue and what that may mean for all different customers. Different Windows users have different priorities. I, myself, am using Start8 in Windows 8. This is my prerogative, because I feel I urgently need quick access to shortcuts, batch scripts, MMC snap-ins, virtual disks, and other things I use to diagnose hardware and software. In any production environment, I am in agreement with you, that I would be forced to recommend this software to management before Windows 8 deployment, because I cannot justify the potential retraining necessary for many public and private employees to learn the Metro UI interface, as well as back and forth switching.

    I think you will need to make a more convincing and civil case for your argument, whereas you do not go for the jugular, so to speak. Perhaps it is best to address the arguments and not the person making it. This is well-tuned advice. However, I think the amount of repetitiveness in your posts has really contrived a belief from others that you are flame baiting the site or trying to start a flame war on the forums. In general, please try to avoid this.

    Please ensure that your:

    Comments and criticisms are directed at the subject at hand and not necessarily the author.
    Skepticism is met with ideas for solutions, and not just repetitive doom and gloom.
    Conduct and etiquette remains as high as your standards would be working with someone in person.

    As there are always human beings behind the computer screen, I try to remain mindful of this fact. I am sure kemical and the rest of our team do as well. I am certain of it, because I have had the privilege of speaking to them on a regular basis, in some cases, for almost a decade now. We care about our rules, but they are around to protect both proponents and opponents of certain technology. However, this cannot be possible if these arguments are formatted in a non-constructive and antagonizing way. I am sure you know what I am talking about.

    I have reversed your infraction and lifted your ban, because I realize that there is a human being with real conviction behind the computer screen who wants to use our website service. As a result, I hope you will structure your posts more coherently and with more enthusiasm and vigor, even if you disagree with something. My goal is to give you a second chance to articulate your thoughts without hijacking a thread as has occurred here. It may even be possible this has been done in an unintentional manner due to your pure disgust with the operating system, and of course, that disgust is your prerogative.

    Of course, not everyone will share in your views, yet some will. That is why it is important to try to bring some guidelines when threads fall of out of wack. It is actually very rare that we do this sort of thing, but in your case, I believe there is more insight you can offer to the website and its viewers while on it then while off. I hope you will not prove me wrong. I believe in your right to free speech, as well as those who disagree with you. You should, as well. Therefore, please try to keep it civil and articulate your points and counter-points concisely and politely.

    Remember, those posting, including myself, are not Microsoft employees. Some of us are certified experts in various technology and have worked in the field for many years; many others have won awards for our contributions. The fact remains that everyone here has an opinion. Throwing some facts into the mix about how Windows 8 has been developed might actually help improve the discussion, rather than degrade it. Open discussions of Windows 8 shortcomings and positives, as well as Windows Blue, as more information becomes available, are critical to maintaining objectivity on the website.

    As a result, I hope you will take this into consideration, as many people may currently feel alienated by your abrasiveness. Perhaps worse, some may flock towards it and you will encourage a rowdy, unintelligible conversation on the subject. While I doubt this will happen, our experience has shown us stranger things can happen. I know that you have it within your knowledge and expertise to prove your point without resulting in repetition, flaming, trolling, and so on. I know it is in you to provide some concrete facts and opinions that are well articulated. That is why your ban has been reversed early; not because of any team member doing something wrong.

    There is more to be said about this subject, but in a positive and friendly context. Thank you for using the site. I hope you will not prove me wrong.
     
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